Well I suspect that unless the EU refuses to give the UK more time and also refuses to accept the revoking of Article 50 we will not be leaving the EU after this heinous law was implemented that gives the government no choice but to stab the leave voters in the back.

@jwildeboer
𝐍𝐨 𝐢𝐭𝐬 𝐧𝐨𝐭!

I have no idea what your skewed idea of democracy is but using the law to force your government into a position whereby they have no option but to revoke article 50 unless the EU gives us a fantastic deal or an extension is not any sane persons perception of democracy. If MP's are unhappy they should vote no confidence or force a General Election the current government no has no power and nowhere to go and they cannot even resign!

@dick_turpin So what's your alternative to the current setup of the UK democracy and the Rule of Law?

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@jwildeboer They should have had a General Election over a year ago. If Labour had won they could have held a 2nd referendum but then, at the time, they were in favour of leaving too! Most of them still are. I think we should have a General Election a.s.a.p. it will clearly be a pretend referendum but it should decide once and for all if we stay or go.

Personally I don't think we can afford to stay now for the reason I set out earlier. I await to be proved right as per usual.

@dick_turpin I have always said that the 2016 referendum was IMHO useless as it was an emotional, not a rational vote. There was no plan behind the leave option. Now that a Withdrawal Agreement is on the table, a referendum would be more based on concrete outcome. It was a rushed mess in 2016 and ATM it isn't much better IMHO. I hope a majority of the people agrees that No Deal is not even close to being a solution. We will see :(

@jwildeboer @dick_turpin

There was only one problem with the 2016 Brexit referendum.

Forget emotion, forget rational.

It was a binary choice. That was the problem.

And for that, I solely blame David ('Anyone interested in my memoirs') Cameron.

His idiocy and self-interest resulted in three years of chaos where important domestic issues have been completely sidelined.

@andyc @jwildeboer Totally agree.

This is what annoys me to the point of pure rage. It simply said "stay" or "leave" on the ballot paper and half the nation is lying and saying "We voted to leave with a a deal." no you fookin didn't! you voted stay or leave nobody mentioned the implications of either choice.

@dick_turpin
I always thought the referendum was made to scare the EU, they just wanted to win it by a small margin to blackmail the EU and they lost it. It was a bluff that went wrong and now they don't know how to get out of the hole they have made.
@andyc @jwildeboer

@ghostdancer @andyc @jwildeboer I think all sides claim to know the reasons why along with what they believe should happen. Andy is totally correct in his assessment. Cameron was convinced the vote would be "Remain" and so therefore did diddley squat in terms of preparation that's why he skipped town before the walls came crashing down. Whether he thought a vote would scare the EU is a matter for yet another bleedin(g) debate!

@ghostdancer @dick_turpin @andyc IMHO the referendum was the result of an inner tory party struggle for power, combined with the risk of Farage and his UKIPpers taking votes away from them. Sort of like a pressure valve to let off some hot air. Well. Turned out to be a bit more, unfortunately.

@jwildeboer @ghostdancer @andyc Na, it was even more pathetic than that! The referendum was in the Tory manifesto. Most of our party's make promises to get voted in that they rarely keep. Cameron thought this would be a fore gone conclusion and so therefore trivial to grant thus making it look like the Tories upheld a manifesto election promise only to have it backfire on him.

@dick_turpin I still can't understand how the hell they didn't have a b plan , just in case, they knew the difference would be close, that shows how arrogant they are. @jwildeboer @andyc

@ghostdancer @dick_turpin @andyc “A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.” - Douglas Adams :)

@jwildeboer Yep, I agree with you. The only reason I'm in favour of leaving without a deal is because I don't believe the EU is going to offer anything that will be acceptable to everyone or at the very least a majority. It would be better to leave, wipe the slate clean and start again.

The only reason I'm not in favour of staying is because I truly believe the EU will go for our jugular now they know just how weak we are.

@dick_turpin @jwildeboer Wow. You truly believe the EU would "go for the jugular" of a member state? What on earth gave you that crazed notion?

@dick_turpin @jwildeboer I dunno. They seem to be doing quite well in the EU. There's a quite amazing amount of infrastructure that has been built or is being build with substantial EU funding.

@fabsh @jwildeboer I have no idea what that's supposed to mean? Not sure what EU infrastructure has to do with relations between the UK and the EU Council?

@dick_turpin @jwildeboer You said you feared the EU would "go for the jugular" of the UK. I asked why. You said the French. I said I don't think the French feel like anyone is going for their jugular. Quite the opposite.

@dick_turpin @jwildeboer With other words: The EU is not in the business of punishing its members. Why would they? If anything, the opposite is true.

@fabsh @dick_turpin @jwildeboer it's leaver paranoia because their unicorn might not be delivered. Boris is still hastily putting it together with felt-tip pens, used toilet roles and a carrot

@jwildeboer that alone should disqualify the man from the prime ministership. That and wanting the job in the first place

@stardot @fabsh @jwildeboer It's painfully obvious Boris doesn't have a new deal, I suspect he was hoping the threat of leaving without one would have got Michel Barnier to pull something out of the bag but that too failed. I don't think anyone has won I feel like we've all lost something whatever side of the political fence you are on.

@dick_turpin @stardot @fabsh I fully agree to that. No winners nowhere. But a lot of transactional costs on all sides. Must. End. ASAP.

@jwildeboer @dick_turpin @stardot You know, whatever side of the political fence I'd been on, I'd have jumped ship at the moment Boris got in charge. Any side that man is on is obviously the wrong one. He's a clueless oaf. I have more trust in Trump -- and I mean that.

@stardot @fabsh @jwildeboer Every time I see his face on TV lately it's the face of that child that thought he was going to see the real father Christmas but the shopping centre grotto was underwhelming. Sometimes the idea of a job is better than the reality of it.
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